Wednesday, 10 June 2009
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Girls and Their Guy "Friends"
You know, I really thought it was common knowledge. It's the subject of numerous jokes. But recently, I've seen a lot of girls who can't seem to understand that that "guy friend" they have likes them, or that that situation eventually leads to lots of drama. So I've compiled some of the advice I've given on the subject, hopefully some girl, somewhere, will get it (because the guys already do).
There was one situation where a guy "BFF" kept calling repeatedly when she was out with her BF, interrupting their date. Also, he would always talk shit about her BF (and had bashed the previous BF too).Your "BFF" likes you, and so it's in his best interest to bash whatever boyfriend you happen to have, all under the pretense of being nice and watching out for you. I mean, he's done this with 2 guys and you're still not seeing this?
I'm willing to bet he's never made any effort to become friends with any of your boyfriends, and if that's the case, then this really should be obvious. Friends want to meet, befriend, and get to know the people that are most important in your life, while "friends" are threatened by them.
Or for a personal example, I have a female friend who is dating a guy that's a real jerk, but I would never tell her that, and I am always very friendly with him, and make every effort to get to know him. I'm her friend, and I support her decisions, even if I don't agree with them. Sure, I don't like him, but she does, and that's all that matters. Does your "friend" support you and your decision to be with your boyfriend? Does he even respect your desision? Does he even truly respect you, if he doesn't respect your desicions? Or is it really more about what he wants?
Let's turn this around, and see if it gives you a better perspective. If you went to a movie with your "friend" and your boyfriend called 5 times during the movie, just to say hi. I'm betting your "friend" would tell you that your boyfriend is clingy, needy, and controlling. Sad part is, the way I see it, your boyfriend should be able to get away with calling too much (maybe not 5 times), a friend should not. (When I call my friends, male or female, I call once, I might leave a message if it's important. Usually I just send a quick text instead of calling.) Your "friend" is manipulative and controlling, get rid of him- not for your boyfriend (although I'm sure he'd be grateful), but for yourself. This is really between you and your "friend", your boyfriend is just being dragged into your drama.
Or another situation, where the "guy friend" made his move, the girl turned him down, and they went back to being "just friends". Except that the guy kept making moves. She was angry because she's already told him "No".You need to say NO with your actions, not just your words. When a guy likes you, and you say "I don't like you like that", but you still hang around with him, you're telling him "I don't like you like that right now, but let's spend some more time getting to know each other, and maybe I'll develop an attraction to you, you'll just have to try and make a move again later". So, he's going to make a move later- and another one, and another one...
If a guy likes you, the only way that he's going to get past that is if you tell him "No", and cease contact with him. If at some point at least a couple months down the road you happen to run into each other again (which will probably happen if you have mutual friends), then you can try to be friends again, because at that point he's over you. But you have to be 100% out of his life for a long period of time for him to get over you. As long as you hang out with guys that like you, you're going to find yourself in this situation over and over again.
I realize it's a lot easier to be friends with someone who likes you. They're always nice to you, they'll put up with your shit, will go out of their way to do something nice for you, etc. The difference is, when a guy is friends with a girl who likes him, he makes a decision, either he gives it a shot, or he brushes her off and walks away. To do anything else seems immoral and wrong. Girls delude themselves into thinking that they can be "just friends", and somehow this is okay, and not leading the guy on at all.
I think all of the attractive girls that I'm now friends with, I was attracted to (to some degree) at first. From talking to others, that seems to be normal for most guys. Somehow, they took themselves "off the market", and we later became friends. That may have been that I didn't see them for awhile, or they had a boyfriend when I met them, but for some reason that initial "Wow, she's hot" dissipated, and then we could later become friends. (The sooner the better, before the attraction gets stronger, and there are more hard feelings).
I'm always wary of girls who say "I have a lot of guy friends, girls are just drama/guys are easier to be friends with". (Or even "I still friends with a lot of my exes...) Yeah, it is easier to be friends with someone who likes you, but it also means that you lack the moral kill-switch that says that you're leading these guys on, and that's wrong.
Finally, there was a girl who had a guy who liked her, and so she did back off and push him away, and felt bad because she had lost a friend, and wanted to get that back. (Well, she lost a "friend", not a friend, but she didn't really catch that).
There is no solution. When he started liking you, and made it clear that he was interested in dating you, he sacrificed that friendship. It's gone. You need to stop trying to get that back. Stop trying to be friends again.Once he gets over you, you may be able to start a new friendship, but there are no guarantees about how long that would take. If you were friends for so long, he's probably liked you for awhile (it seems your newly single status gave him the push he needed)- he may never really get over you, especially if he still sees you with your mutual friends. You just have to realize and accept that that friendship that you once had is now gone. He's made his move, and forced your hand, you have to decide what you want. Sometimes he might use a line like: "I would rather be just a friend than not have you in my life at all". This isn't true.
From a guy's perspective, when a girl makes a move, or indicates that she likes us, and we don't return those feelings, the very idea of spending time with that girl, even in a group setting, makes us feel awkward- and so we just naturally avoid the girl. We don't "try to be friends", she's dead to us. If you want to communicate with this guy, you need to speak his language. He's gone.
I wanted to point out from above, that it doesn't matter if the girl is single, or if she has a boyfriend. The guy "friend" leads to drama. It will probably lead to any boyfriend also getting dragged into the mess, but it's really between the girl and her guy "friend".
So girls, thoughts?
Guys:
Have you ever liked a girl and been "friends" with her? Why?
Have you ever dated a girl who had a guy "friend"?
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Comments (21)
I partially agreee... The guy friends can sometimes be a mess but generally in my case its nice to have guy friends... With guy friends u can ask things u dont want to ask ur bf which helps a lot for advice... Now its a different case when the "guy friend" is either ur ex or liked u or doesnt like ur bf if u have one, then it can cause some trouble as there might be arguments or a loss of a few friends but it all depends on the people....
@Tanzantine - Yeah, there's a difference between guy friends, and guy "friends". Guy friends are hard to come by.
My best buy friend has always liked me and iv'e always felt bad about it. He's been very respectful and always made friends with my boyfriends. He'd watch my back and give me his opinion but he was never rude to them nor did he ever talk trash about them. I always feel like i am being selfish by being his friend because i know he wants more since he always mentions it, i just can't see him as any more then a friend.
i really like this post by the way:)
I have run into a situations two and three before, but have actually found guy friends that I can get along with that can be just friends. Perhaps it's my personality...I tend to just be one of the guys. I enjoy the drama and bullshit free environment and being able to just chill out. That doesn't happen very much with girls.
Also, nice rock climbing picture.
I like this post.
it's a good one.
however I feel that the line between friend and "friend" isn't as easy as you make it seem. One I have a friend and she's one of my female friends and I do not like her boyfriend I will say that I don't like him and that I don't aprove. so I feel like that theory doesn't always apply because if that person is just a friend and not a "friend" and saying that they don't like your boyfriend and what not that could just be that person is saying their opinion about a person they don't like that could hurt them down the road.
also adding to the post I feel like this goes for guys that have girls as friends too.
@Silent_Scream_08 - Yeah, just saying that you don't care for someone's SO doesn't mean that you like the person. It's just a common sign to look for. In the example I used above, I actually did end up telling my female friend that I didn't like her bf (she was talking to me about him), and why (with my personal experiences with her bf as examples)- I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Guy "friends" are typically threatened by your SO, and so they don't have personal experiences, they just find some reason to nit-pick.
My personal favorite is the guys who have never really met your SO, and don't like them because of what you've said about them. Say for example, there's something you don't like about your SO, and you talk about it to a male friend- this isn't necessarily even a male "friend", it just bugs me when this happens. You want to get a guy's opinion on the issue, to see if it's something you should talk to your SO about changing, or if it's something fairly normal that you should accept and not make a big deal over. Maybe it's right after a fight, and you're just venting, and they just happened to be around (how convenient that they're always there for you- yeah, it's probably totally normal, just something to think about). In the end, that male friend has heard all about all the bad things about your SO, and so they decide they don't like them- because of what you've said about your SO. Logically, you obviously like your SO, so it should be obvious that they're not seeing the whole story. That just kinda bugs me. Oh, and guy "friends" typically are really good at bringing up every little bad thing that you've told them your SO has ever done.
Oh wow. I've kinda been that "friend" who liked my "girl" friends. I've been in this kind of situation about...3 times. I think i liked them enough to want to tell them, but it was always a backseat in our friendship.
so basically you're saying that guys can never be "Just Friends" with a girl?
This is a nice post...I've ran into some problems with this
@wyrdkismet - Negative. I'm saying that there are guy friends, and guy "friends", and one can not be the other.
I think most guys do have friends that are girls, and it's totally platonic. In my post, I did mention that I have a number of platonic friends that are girls.
this is a good post. unfortunately, i'm starting to run out of guy friends :(
@Leitey - hhhmmm....well you're the first guy i know who's admitted to me that some guys and girls can really be just friends. my guy friends all tell me that a guy can never be just friends with a girl.
i had a lot of guy friends in high school, and it was never akward then, mainly because they all saw me as one of the guys, i was very boyish looking them, body wise and it was easy to be their friends, the problem was i was the one who always liked them as more than friends, but i knew they werent interested so i stayed silent. now i am really not friends with any guys, i did become friends with an ex, which was my mistake even though it has been years since we were together, but he seemed interested, but i told him no and he moved on to another girl and now we almost never talk. i liked your post, good insight.
@wyrdkismet - I think that only applies to attractive girls.
The only way that a guy can be truly friends with a girl is if he's not attracted to her.
When a guy meets a girl, he's either attracted to her, or he's not. If he finds her unattractive, and she hangs around enough (through mutual friends or shared activities) they may become friends, but he prob won't go out of his way to be her friend. If he finds her to be attractive, he's going to put her in the "people I want to fuck" category. That's a difficult category to get out of. Here's some examples of my female friends:
- A few girls that I was only a little attracted to initially, and then once I got to know them better, I was less attracted to them, but we had a lot of the same friends, so we became friends. These girls should never have been in that category to begin with, I just didn't know that initially. They could probably be put back into the category if they changed a few minor things about themselves.
- A couple girls that I found attractive, tried to get with, and they immediately shot me down. I was disappointed, and stopped talking to them, cut them out of my life, but we had mutual friends, so I saw them enough to become friends with them. If they tried, they could be put back into the category pretty easily, but they aren't there now.
- I'm also friends with a number of girls that I've never been attracted, and would never be in the category no matter how hard they tried. We had mutual friends, and saw each other enough that I actually got to know them, even though I never actually tried to get to know them.
@Leitey - that explains so much. and it also reinforces some of the things that my guy friends have told me. hmm..i think this could go both ways. thanks for taking the time to respond!
Loved the advice you gave, it was nice to be able to read a point of view of this topic from a real guy guy's perspective. But one question about this part of your post:
"Yeah, it is easier to be friends with someone who likes you, but it also means that you lack the moral kill-switch that says that you're leading these guys on, and that's wrong."
But what if you straight up tell the guy that you are not interested in him in a romantic way, and it will never be, yet he still continues to spend time with you? Wouldn't it be his fault for putting himself in that position of being hurt constantly then? So it wouldn't really make the girl "immoral", right? He should know, that if the girl is saying right to his face that she just wants to be friends and is not interested in him in any other way, what the results would be if he continued to hang out with her. It may be messed up on the girl's side because she would know he gets his heart broken hanging with her knowing that she can't give him anymore than what she has to offer for him (just friends), but it'd be equally the dude's fault if he was told clearly that she isn't interested in him that way, if he continues to put himself in that vulnerable situation. Right?
@am_mo@datingish - I suppose that's one way of looking at it, but that's not how guys see things.
Say the situation was reversed. I've got some girl who is clearly attracted to me, and I'm not interested. I've made it clear to her that I'm not interested, but she persists. At this point, naturally, my "kill-switch" triggers, and this girl is shoved into the "creepy girl who won't leave me alone" category, and I avoid her like the plague. That's the kill switch. That's how guys work. This whole "I don't like you like that but let's keep spending time together" thing is really messed up.
And what if this girl and her guy "friend" both acknowledge that they have feelings for each other, but the guy "friend" says (in a nice way, of course) that nothing's going to happen right now? Now I would have thought that this would make things awkward between them, and they would no longer be the good friends they were, but what if somehow these two remained pretty good friends, and it seemed obvious they still liked each other? Would that be leading each other on? Because that seems like a confusing situation to me.
Good advice, by the way. We girls can always use a little insight into the male mind. =)